MAN UNITED have failed to beat Derby and West Ham so chances of taking care of Valencia tonight look slim.
A 3-1 defeat at the London Stadium made it the Reds' worst start to the season for 29 years and something must give with the manager tipped to leave.
United won their CL opener at Young Boys but it's difficult to back them at a best 7-10 with McBookie.
In their favour is the fact Valencia haven't won in England since 2002 and have made a slow start to the season although victory at Real Sociedad lifted them to 14th.
The other game in Group H should go the way of Juventus even without banned Cristiano Ronaldo. The Italians are a best 1-5 so consider them -1 at 1-2 with Ladbrokes.
Man City head to Hoffenheim needing a win after a shock home defeat to Lyon on matchday one.
That was just a blip and with Pep Guardiola back in the dugout after his ban I'm on City at 2-5 with bet365.
Again it's a bit short so best bet could be over 3.5 match goals at 11-10 with betfair.
Four out of Hoffenheim's last seven have gone that way with all seven seeing both scoring.
Sergio Aguero could be rested head of Sunday's Premier League clash with Liverpool and that would mean a start for Gabriel Jesus who is 17-16 at Unibet to score.
I've concentrated on the games involving the English teams and will add thoughts on the other games later.
- Hoffenheim v Man City over 3.5 goals
- Jesus to score
- Man Utd v Valencia draw